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	<title>Comments on: Judaism and Zionism: A Divorce In the Making&#8230;?</title>
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		<title>By: Jewjitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-698524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jewjitsu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alanhart.net/?p=2488#comment-698524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why do we need a jew to tell us its wrong?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do we need a jew to tell us its wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Rehmat</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-697631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rehmat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Feb 2014 18:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Dr. Norman Finkelstein was recently interviewed by Israeli journalist Jamie Stern-Weiner in which Finkelstein claimed that if Mahmoud Abbas accepts John Kerry’s plan, it would be the end of Palestine.

http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/26/norman-finkelstein-the-end-of-palestine/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Norman Finkelstein was recently interviewed by Israeli journalist Jamie Stern-Weiner in which Finkelstein claimed that if Mahmoud Abbas accepts John Kerry’s plan, it would be the end of Palestine.</p>
<p><a href="http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/26/norman-finkelstein-the-end-of-palestine/" rel="nofollow">http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/26/norman-finkelstein-the-end-of-palestine/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Meikle</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-686880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Meikle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[as an example of my point, here is a press release from Neturei Karta Jews United Against Israel 


27 January 2014
Holocaust Conference, Auschwitz
Anti-Zionist Rabbis Call Israeli Ceremony at Auschwitz an Affront to the Memory of the Victims

January 28, 2014 – Berlin

Orthodox Rabbis, holocaust survivors and descendents of survivors, held a press conference in Berlin yesterday in response to a memorial ceremony, held at Auschwitz by 69 Israeli politicians, who warned of rising anti-Semitism in Europe.

The Rabbis found it repugnant that the State of Israel, whose founders refused to rescue Jews while the Holocaust was happening, should be commemorating the Holocaust.

&quot;We survived by hiding in a bunker in Budapest during the Holocaust,&quot; said Rabbi Moshe Dov Beck, 79. &quot;It is well known that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war, as a gift from the guilt ridden and sympathetic victors. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goal.&quot;

&quot;As for today&#039;s anti-Semitism, the Israelis complaining is duplicitous, because the existence of the Israeli State and it&#039;s atrocities is largely the cause. And of course it is obvious, that they reap the benefits – more world anti-Semitism, more Jews immigrate to their state&quot;, said Rabbi Dovid Feldman.

&quot;The Zionists want the world to believe that they represent world Jewry and Judaism, that is false,&quot; said Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss. &quot;They accuse everyone who criticizes their vile actions of anti-Semitism, that is also a lie. Unfortunately there are those who hate all Jews because they consider Judaism and Zionism one and the same. Thus Zionists bring danger upon Jews and then they present themselves as the saviors of the Jewish people.&quot;

&quot;The Torah teaches that Jews are in exile by a Divine decree. Jews are required to respect the nations amongst whom they live. The Torah forbids Jews to have their own state. Jews accept the Almighty&#039;s decree and wait patiently for His redemption, without any human intervention. It goes without saying that Jews are forbidden to steal land, kill or expel anyone. Precisely because we experienced the Holocaust, we must learn tolerance and respect for others - not use our suffering as an excuse to oppress others.&quot;

&quot;Subsequently, this Zionist ceremony is nothing less than a brutal affront to the memory of those who perished in the Holocaust.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as an example of my point, here is a press release from Neturei Karta Jews United Against Israel </p>
<p>27 January 2014<br />
Holocaust Conference, Auschwitz<br />
Anti-Zionist Rabbis Call Israeli Ceremony at Auschwitz an Affront to the Memory of the Victims</p>
<p>January 28, 2014 – Berlin</p>
<p>Orthodox Rabbis, holocaust survivors and descendents of survivors, held a press conference in Berlin yesterday in response to a memorial ceremony, held at Auschwitz by 69 Israeli politicians, who warned of rising anti-Semitism in Europe.</p>
<p>The Rabbis found it repugnant that the State of Israel, whose founders refused to rescue Jews while the Holocaust was happening, should be commemorating the Holocaust.</p>
<p>&#8220;We survived by hiding in a bunker in Budapest during the Holocaust,&#8221; said Rabbi Moshe Dov Beck, 79. &#8220;It is well known that the Zionist policy during the Holocaust was that only Jewish bloodshed on a massive scale could help them achieve their state after the war, as a gift from the guilt ridden and sympathetic victors. They provoked anti-Semitism and sabotaged rescue efforts, all for their political goal.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;As for today&#8217;s anti-Semitism, the Israelis complaining is duplicitous, because the existence of the Israeli State and it&#8217;s atrocities is largely the cause. And of course it is obvious, that they reap the benefits – more world anti-Semitism, more Jews immigrate to their state&#8221;, said Rabbi Dovid Feldman.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Zionists want the world to believe that they represent world Jewry and Judaism, that is false,&#8221; said Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss. &#8220;They accuse everyone who criticizes their vile actions of anti-Semitism, that is also a lie. Unfortunately there are those who hate all Jews because they consider Judaism and Zionism one and the same. Thus Zionists bring danger upon Jews and then they present themselves as the saviors of the Jewish people.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The Torah teaches that Jews are in exile by a Divine decree. Jews are required to respect the nations amongst whom they live. The Torah forbids Jews to have their own state. Jews accept the Almighty&#8217;s decree and wait patiently for His redemption, without any human intervention. It goes without saying that Jews are forbidden to steal land, kill or expel anyone. Precisely because we experienced the Holocaust, we must learn tolerance and respect for others &#8211; not use our suffering as an excuse to oppress others.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Subsequently, this Zionist ceremony is nothing less than a brutal affront to the memory of those who perished in the Holocaust.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rehmat</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-686346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rehmat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Feb 2014 16:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[This week, the Museum of Jewish Heritage in New York banned a scheduled appearance by The New Republic’s Jewish senior editor John B. Judis who in his latest book, ‘Genesis: Truman, American Jews, and the origin of the Arab/Israeli Conflict‘ has refuted several of Zionist lies about Harry Truman. Judis is also a “visiting scholar” at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Jewish group lobbying for Israel.

The book challenges the Zionist narrative about President Truman’s recognition of Israel in 1948, showing him as a hard-nosed politician trailing in the polls in May of an election year, and being heavily lobbied by American Zionists who then helped ensure his re-election.

http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/22/jewish-museum-bans-truman-israel-discussion/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This week, the Museum of Jewish Heritage in New York banned a scheduled appearance by The New Republic’s Jewish senior editor John B. Judis who in his latest book, ‘Genesis: Truman, American Jews, and the origin of the Arab/Israeli Conflict‘ has refuted several of Zionist lies about Harry Truman. Judis is also a “visiting scholar” at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Jewish group lobbying for Israel.</p>
<p>The book challenges the Zionist narrative about President Truman’s recognition of Israel in 1948, showing him as a hard-nosed politician trailing in the polls in May of an election year, and being heavily lobbied by American Zionists who then helped ensure his re-election.</p>
<p><a href="http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/22/jewish-museum-bans-truman-israel-discussion/" rel="nofollow">http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/22/jewish-museum-bans-truman-israel-discussion/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Meikle</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-685553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Meikle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Feb 2014 07:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Why are you surprised that such a divorce is in the making? Indeed why do you miss that it seems (unless I am misinformed) already to have been made and that long ago? Have you not noticed that many Orthodox Jewish groups have been utterly opposed to Zionism since its very outset.

I can recommend a website, that of Neturei Karta   nkusa.org one among a few I know of, and there are others

They argue passionately that as  the Zionist State was founded by men it was not founded by God and is therefore a counterfeit.

they hold that there will be a zionist state but only after the Messiah as come and that man has no business running ahead of God&#039;s timetable to produce a counterfeit work which has committed crimes, desecrates Jewish grave sites (among other things) and is secular

They also insist that they are the majority position as regards religious Jews. I do not know if this is true  but if it is that changes the complexion of things immensely.

I myself oppose the Zionist state for its violations of the Law of Moses whereby they harass non jews within their borders in violation of the Law of Moses.

Take a look at nkusa.org  &#039;s site

I do not believe I have made anything up. I may be misled but am not an inventor  of error here]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are you surprised that such a divorce is in the making? Indeed why do you miss that it seems (unless I am misinformed) already to have been made and that long ago? Have you not noticed that many Orthodox Jewish groups have been utterly opposed to Zionism since its very outset.</p>
<p>I can recommend a website, that of Neturei Karta   nkusa.org one among a few I know of, and there are others</p>
<p>They argue passionately that as  the Zionist State was founded by men it was not founded by God and is therefore a counterfeit.</p>
<p>they hold that there will be a zionist state but only after the Messiah as come and that man has no business running ahead of God&#8217;s timetable to produce a counterfeit work which has committed crimes, desecrates Jewish grave sites (among other things) and is secular</p>
<p>They also insist that they are the majority position as regards religious Jews. I do not know if this is true  but if it is that changes the complexion of things immensely.</p>
<p>I myself oppose the Zionist state for its violations of the Law of Moses whereby they harass non jews within their borders in violation of the Law of Moses.</p>
<p>Take a look at nkusa.org  &#8216;s site</p>
<p>I do not believe I have made anything up. I may be misled but am not an inventor  of error here</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-681640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alanhart.net/?p=2488#comment-681640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who know the basic principles of judaism know that can&#039;t have separation of judaism and sionism. The &quot;torah&quot; confirm the supremacy of jews over others peoples, confirmed by the &quot;talmud&quot;. The core of judaism is the sionism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who know the basic principles of judaism know that can&#8217;t have separation of judaism and sionism. The &#8220;torah&#8221; confirm the supremacy of jews over others peoples, confirmed by the &#8220;talmud&#8221;. The core of judaism is the sionism.</p>
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		<title>By: Judaism And Zionism: A Divorce In The Making…? — Jamiatul Ulama KZN</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-679755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judaism And Zionism: A Divorce In The Making…? — Jamiatul Ulama KZN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alanhart.net/?p=2488#comment-679755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] 18 February, 2014 Alanhart.net [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 18 February, 2014 Alanhart.net [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Judaism and Zionism: a Divorce in the Making? &#124; Council for the National Interest</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-678880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judaism and Zionism: a Divorce in the Making? &#124; Council for the National Interest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alanhart.net/?p=2488#comment-678880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] AlanHart.net, 2/17/14 &#8211; Way back in October 2001, a prominent and widely respected liberal London rabbi, Dr. David Goldberg, made what I thought at the time was the most remarkable statement ever made by a Jew in the 53 years that had passed since the creation, mainly by terrorism and ethnic cleansing, of the Zionist (not Jewish) state of Israel. He said that Israel’s “colonization” of Palestine had left many Jews “questioning their unconditional support for Israel.” Then this: “It may be time for Judaism and Zionism to go their separate ways.” [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] AlanHart.net, 2/17/14 &#8211; Way back in October 2001, a prominent and widely respected liberal London rabbi, Dr. David Goldberg, made what I thought at the time was the most remarkable statement ever made by a Jew in the 53 years that had passed since the creation, mainly by terrorism and ethnic cleansing, of the Zionist (not Jewish) state of Israel. He said that Israel’s “colonization” of Palestine had left many Jews “questioning their unconditional support for Israel.” Then this: “It may be time for Judaism and Zionism to go their separate ways.” [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Griffiths</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-678869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graham Griffiths]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Yes, my hope for an eventual solution to  the plight of the Palestinians has always lain with Jewish people themselves, including many within Israel. Norman Finkelstein has been vociferous for some time now about the extensive change in the attitudes of younger Jewish Americans.

If you consider history, most revolutions, for that&#039;s what a solution to this problem would be, involve some help from the established side, as it were, and I&#039;m becoming more optimistic. Thanks for the encouraging article, Alan; I can only echo Dodo&#039;s compliments.

By the way, David Goldberg taught me at Salford Grammar School fifty-odd years ago. A very thoughtful character he was then, too and a great influence on many of my friends. It&#039;s so good to see him being one of the modern Jews who have a liberal attitude to the matter and are not afraid to voice it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, my hope for an eventual solution to  the plight of the Palestinians has always lain with Jewish people themselves, including many within Israel. Norman Finkelstein has been vociferous for some time now about the extensive change in the attitudes of younger Jewish Americans.</p>
<p>If you consider history, most revolutions, for that&#8217;s what a solution to this problem would be, involve some help from the established side, as it were, and I&#8217;m becoming more optimistic. Thanks for the encouraging article, Alan; I can only echo Dodo&#8217;s compliments.</p>
<p>By the way, David Goldberg taught me at Salford Grammar School fifty-odd years ago. A very thoughtful character he was then, too and a great influence on many of my friends. It&#8217;s so good to see him being one of the modern Jews who have a liberal attitude to the matter and are not afraid to voice it.</p>
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		<title>By: David Marchesi</title>
		<link>http://www.alanhart.net/judaism-and-zionism-a-divorce-in-the-making/comment-page-1/#comment-678816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Marchesi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alanhart.net/?p=2488#comment-678816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[another excellent article by a wise GHB.
An obvious but rarely mentioned point about Israel is that it clearly- unless, perhaps, and even then,the Zionist State takes over all Greater Israel from the Med to the Euphrates (!!)-is simply far too small to accommodate all the world&#039;s Jews. That is, in any case, supposing that the more sensible Jews in the rest of the world really wanted to go there,and had the means to immigrate and prosper in a country which would become a total fortress-state.A militarised nation to an anti-human extent.
I find it hard to see how more Israelis cannot see the current situation as inexorably leading to a suffocating, truly totalitarian regime, worthy of the odium of people around the world who detest all forms of fascism, militaristic, clerico/religious or more crudely political. Orthodox Jews, I understand, theoretically accept that the State of Israel is contrary to the torah&#039;s teachings.Sadly, the most insane &quot;Zionist&quot; pressure group now is probably the US (etc) &quot;Christian Zionist&quot; lobby, which is nakedly apocalyptic. In a nutshell, the prophetic tradition of Judaism needs to be re-discovered and promoted, not any re-configuration of Zionism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another excellent article by a wise GHB.<br />
An obvious but rarely mentioned point about Israel is that it clearly- unless, perhaps, and even then,the Zionist State takes over all Greater Israel from the Med to the Euphrates (!!)-is simply far too small to accommodate all the world&#8217;s Jews. That is, in any case, supposing that the more sensible Jews in the rest of the world really wanted to go there,and had the means to immigrate and prosper in a country which would become a total fortress-state.A militarised nation to an anti-human extent.<br />
I find it hard to see how more Israelis cannot see the current situation as inexorably leading to a suffocating, truly totalitarian regime, worthy of the odium of people around the world who detest all forms of fascism, militaristic, clerico/religious or more crudely political. Orthodox Jews, I understand, theoretically accept that the State of Israel is contrary to the torah&#8217;s teachings.Sadly, the most insane &#8220;Zionist&#8221; pressure group now is probably the US (etc) &#8220;Christian Zionist&#8221; lobby, which is nakedly apocalyptic. In a nutshell, the prophetic tradition of Judaism needs to be re-discovered and promoted, not any re-configuration of Zionism.</p>
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