Ethnic cleansing the nice way
I think he was doing more than calling in code for the formal annexation of Area C. He was also signalling the need for Zionism to pre-empt any possible international pressure for withdrawal by going ahead with annexation without too much further delay. This would see Zionism resorting to its tried and tested way of defying international law. Effectively Israel’s leaders say to the world: “We know we should not have done this, but we’ve done it. What are you going to do about it?” On the evidence of history to date Zionism knows the answer to that question, “Nothing.”
Edelstein is not alone. As the battle for rightwing votes intensifies, more and more members of the Likud-Beiteinu election alliance are using the “a” (annexation) word.
What Feiglin, Edelstein and others said at the conference was seized upon by Tzipi Livni, the former Kadima leader and foreign minister, as an opportunity to advance the election prospects of her own newly formed “centrist” party, Hatnua. She said the conference had “removed the masks” of the Likud-Beiteinu alliance.
She went on:
“Likud-Beiteinu is extreme right wing and will make Israel into a boycotted, isolated and ostracised state” and “lead to the destruction of Zionism and the establishment of a bi-national state.”
Those of us who are concerned with the need for justice for the Palestinians and peace with equal rights and security for all have to hope that her prediction will not be proved wrong by events.
Update
I wrote this piece shortly before hundreds of thousands of Palestinian supporters of Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction were allowed by Hamas to rally in Gaza to mark Fatah’s 48th anniversary. If that’s a sign that there is now a real prospect of a Fatah-Hamas reconciliation for the sake of Palestinian unity, the probability is that the Israeli right will be strengthened in its conviction that the ticking demographic time-bomb of occupation must be defused by any means, including, if necessary, a final ethnic cleansing by military means, not the nice way Feiglin proposed.
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Rehmat:
January 4th, 2013 at 10:48 pm
Moshe Feiglin is not saying something new. Any Zionist history student will tell you that it was the agenda of the World Zionist Movement from the day one – to establish a demographic Jewish entity in British occupied Palestine for its survival within a hostile non-Jewish population.
The Zionist regimes have been carrying out that policy since their unilateral declaration of a “Jewish State” over Arab land on May 14, 1948 – which even a Zionist Christian like Harry Truman did not have the stomach to accept as a Jewish state.
As Dr. Norman Finkelstein’s mother said that “Jews don’t have monopoly over Holocaust. Many other people went through Holocausts and currently, the Palestinian people are going through their Holocaust”, (quoted in ‘The Holocaust Industry’).
http://rehmat1.com/2009/02/07/holocausts-too-many-to-remember/
ontogram:
January 5th, 2013 at 3:40 am
It does take chutzpah to call Arabs “thieves and robbers.” Zionists stole the land, rights and property of Arabs outright and they go on stealing in “broad daylight.” Zionists can have any kind of state their delusions requires but, if it includes Palestinians, they too must have equal political rights. The “transfer” of Palestinians continues and, just as the Nakba I created insecurity, so also this one will. Violence will continue and those who can will leave Israel.
Did you ever hear the old joke about “How do you know a Zionist is speaking?”
ontogram:
January 5th, 2013 at 3:41 am
I meant ” …a Zionist is lying?” Ruined the joke.
ontogram:
January 5th, 2013 at 3:42 am
BTW — Moshe Feiglin looks like he should get outdoors more often, do a little exercise, a little psychotherapy…something. This is not a happy man.
ontogram:
January 5th, 2013 at 3:44 am
He wants to buy the Palestinian patrimony! The Palestinians should hold out for the total value of all the land of Israel and Gaza and the West Bank. That’s what is owed.
Gene:
January 5th, 2013 at 8:23 am
“And so it goes ……….”
maryam:
January 5th, 2013 at 11:17 am
Why should the Palestinians sell their homeland at any price?
Bob:
January 5th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
I don’t know what planet Moshe Feiglin is on but it’s not this one! Among Zionists, he’s not alone on that score. And Zionists are not noted for their generosity: They never give, always take and I think I have just made a gross understatement. But where is he going to find all that money? Zionism’s sponsors have already asset stripped, bilked and bankrupted the United States. Europe is in a similar state. Perhaps it’s the Euphoria before the Crash?
Vera Gottlieb:
January 5th, 2013 at 3:29 pm
Slowly but surely, israel is turning itself into a ghetto. No one to blame but itself.
Davey Wavey:
January 5th, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Pals shouldn’t (wouldn’t) sell their land. But Israelis would. The Arab states might collectively make the same offer to Israelis. A great majority of them would take it because they are foreign to region and transient anyway. Or maybe — take the funds and buy bulldozers to level homes in Tel Aviv. The imagination goes wild.
Brad Brzezinski:
January 7th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Alan said: “Just imagine what the reaction would be if an Arab politician running for office expressed similar vile thoughts about Israeli and other Jews ..”
They frequently do. Very frequently and at levels from top to bottom on the spectrum of influence. There is little to no reaction from the world at large and certainly none from you nor other attackers of Israel, right or wrong.
Davey Wavey:
January 7th, 2013 at 6:33 pm
Brad — show me where one such politician says Jews are dirty and like monkeys or similar. Not Israelis or Zionists — because these are not representative of “Jews” — but Jews as people. Show me.
Brad Brzezinski:
January 7th, 2013 at 7:17 pm
Davey Wavey: The wording of your challenge implies that you believe expression of vile thoughts towards Israelis and Zionists is in order.
Enough said.
maryam:
January 7th, 2013 at 7:55 pm
Got news for you, Brad. Arab politicians don’t spend a lot of time thinking about Jews, but Jewish Israelis seem to spend a lot of time thinking about Arabs.
I’d love to know where you get your misinformation from, really.
Davey Wavey:
January 8th, 2013 at 12:02 am
It is reasonable to criticize Israel and Zionism: It is unreasonable to hold a collective identity responsible (Jews)
but, or rather BUT, it is Israel that pretends to speak for ALL Jews. Egypt does not speak for all Arabs, neither does Iraq, but Israel insists on this identification, so it has to TAKE the consequences. According to Israel (according to the dominant form of Zionism), all Jews are therefore responsible for the crimes of Israel and speaking out against these crimes NECESSARILY entails speaking out against “Jews.” If I am responsible for these crimes then I have a right to focus on Israeli policy and Israeli practice. I regret what happens elsewhere, but I have a duty and a right to say no to Israel. That’s my sense of morality, my Jewish morality.
See, you don’t know what you are doing and this is either ignorance (insufficient reading/thinking) or it biased, bigoted racism crap.
Davey Wavey:
January 8th, 2013 at 1:23 am
““Zionists” is Iran’s ideological term for Jews who support the state of Israel.” From an article cited by Brad. It’s true it is an ideological term but there are evangelical Zionists as well. When Iran says “Zionist” they mean “Zionist.”
BUT, if for the sake of argument, let’s pretend they mean “all Jews”: Wherever could they have gotten such an impression???? From the State of Israel itself which says it speaks for all Jews. Tut tut.
Brad Brzezinski:
January 8th, 2013 at 3:31 am
Davey Wavey said: “show me where one such politician says Jews are dirty and like monkeys….”
So I did.
Davey Wavey then says it’s OK to villify all Jews: ‘…. all Jews are therefore responsible for the crimes of Israel and speaking out against these crimes NECESSARILY entails speaking out against “Jews.” ‘
Game, set and match.
Davey Wavey:
January 8th, 2013 at 3:41 am
It is not ok to vilify all Jews. But, if that mistake is made, one has only Israel to thank for the confusion. Winning? I don’t think so: Nobody siding with an oppressive and racist government, one that steals land and rights from others and keeps those who push back in cages, no such person can win anything but infamy.
Davey Wavey:
January 8th, 2013 at 5:56 pm
How does the citation of other regimes relieve Israel of such criticism? Whether your list is true or not, it should include Israel. But, even so, the criticism remains true.
This tactic, like the three D’s promulgated by Zionist organizations, the means of “detecting” anti-semitism, the attempt to steep Israel’s record in the commonplace, is not an argument. It is roughly parallel to the ad hominem attacks by Zionists calling speakers and arguments “anti-semitism”. The attack on the speaker (and not the speech) is not an argument.
You are right, the list of oppressive regimes is long. But it includes Israel which touts its progressive “Western” credentials and pretends to speak for all Jews. I focus on Israel because I am Jewish and that is my duty.
Like ad hominem attacks, the attempt to dissolve Israel’s character in commonality is not a refutation. Even an anti-semite can make a good argument. His motives are irrelevant.
Davey Wavey:
January 8th, 2013 at 6:02 pm
Brad — I can tell from your comments that you are a professional, a hasbarist of the Israeli regime. You guys betray yourselves by having too many citations and references at the ready. It is an organized ideological rebuttal, not just a guy using some spare time to defend a state I consider to be loathsome. I am just a single guy and I haven’t time to do the research you have at your fingertips. It is obvious: The same methods show up again and again. Say what you will: Israel is an oppressive, racist regime.
Brad Brzezinski:
January 8th, 2013 at 10:15 pm
Davey Wavey: I read Mein Kampf as a boy and was struck by a statement Hitler made early on; he said there was no avenue of crime in which Jews are not involved. That statement is probably true, just as it is true of any other cohesive group one chooses to name. To vilify only Jews because of it is antisemitism and it has led to very bad things for the Jews but also to the accusers and others. WWII is an excellent example of this.
You say you feel the need to focus only on Israel because you are a Jew. That’s mighty honourable of you but you could consider that there are few Jews in the world and a great many people doing just that while ignoring all the other ills in the world. (The UN in its latest session issued 22 condemnations against Israel and 4 for the rest of the world combined. The word, “disproportionate” comes to mind.) Many, possibly most of the anti-Zionist groups in the world are headed by Jews. How many Arabs do you know of who criticise the Arab states? I do know of some by the way many are a good source of knowledge and true liberals, wishing for better lives for fellow Arabs.
Lastly, your argument that I am not to be trusted because I know too many facts is a bit sad. Your belief that Israel “is an oppressive, racist regime” is obviously something you want to believe rather than a considered opinion. (I am a person on my own, like you. I just happened to set out to find the truth some years ago.)
Davey Wavey:
January 8th, 2013 at 11:15 pm
For other readers, “disportionate” is one of the 3 D’s Zionists teach one to look out for in order to distinguish anti-semitism from legitimate criticism. Another one is “Double Standards”, applying to Israel standards not applied to other states. I forget the third.
The problem with the 3 D’s is that they are intended to obscure the issues, dilute the badness of Israel in the sea of badness worldwide. This won’t do. Pointing the finger elsewhere won’t do. Israel is still culpable for its policies and practices. It just doesn’t like anyone (regardless of that one’s motives) pointing them out. That’s understandable, but not a cogent answer to the criticism. Israel should be made anxious because the Zionists have managed to dupe the world into subsidizing the colony. A good piece of Israeli GDP consists of subsidies. It is a rentier state in the classic economic sense.
Bob:
January 8th, 2013 at 11:32 pm
Good points made by Davey Wavey in how Hasbara is applied. But as to the motives of the Hasbarists (many if not most profess to be non-religious) that intrigues me. Is it Tribalism, denial, destrudo or that they’re getting paid? I believe Boiler Room Scammers hype bad/false stocks the same way.
If “Israel” were an individual it would be a whining Sociopath/Narcissist blaming and scapegoating everyone but itself for its criminality.
The whole shebang is a con trick as they’ve conned people and governments into subsidising them. Without these subsidies how can the war machine continue?
Davey Wavey:
January 9th, 2013 at 1:47 am
Bob — exactly, a big confidence sham. US taxpayers send $550-600 to each Israeli citizen every year. (I’d like that subsidy, too! It would pay a few months of my son’s auto insurance!) And that’s the tip of the iceberg, the $3.2 billion in military aid. Why doesn’t the US subsidize the Polish military or the Canadian military? It is bizarre and baffling. The private and “tax-exempt” subsidies are substantial (why are they tax exempt at all? Why are settlers subsidized by the US taxpayer when US POLICY IS FOR ISRAEL TO HALT SETTLEMENTS?!)
And this is just still the top layer of welfare. Israel enjoys benefits from the US in all sorts of trade matters, timing of fundings, etc. This all have value. And then there is the untraceable illegal funding which has to be substantial because Israel is some sort of center for international crime and human trafficking. Any state BUILT on dual citizenship is suspect. Any state, and any political party, heavily dependent on the high moral character of an Adelson or who hires Richard Perle for ideas (like Iraq, perhaps?) has got to be very wrong.
If Americans would once entertain the thought that Zionism and Israel are a big mistake and that the Zionist narrative MAY not be true, they would see the light easily. Turned around, the anti-Zionist narrative is sensible, it explains everything historical much better than the hemming and hawing of Zionists. Take “Palestinians abandoned their homes.” Stop and think: Pals knew full well that Israel wanted their homes and property. Wouldn’t you think that frankly abandoning their home would be very unlikely? I could go on and on. The right of return extends to absolute foreigners, removed 100 generations from the region, if any trace at all, and excludes those whose families may have lived right there for maybe one thousand years. I could go on and on. It is just all crap.
It is crap, run by indicted criminals and it should make all Jews ashamed, not sentimental. I hasten to point out that the best and brightest were not exactly enamored of the idea of Israel at all: I am thinking of both Einstein and Freud in this regard. The top tier thought that dispossessing another people was a really bad idea. Read Freud on the subject.
Davey Wavey:
January 9th, 2013 at 1:52 am
BTW — For two thousand years Jews did not “dream” of a Jewish state at all. “Next year in Jerusalem!” is not a dream but a salutation. It does not encompass a state. Perhaps, it remembers the homeland, or even yearns for a homeland, but there is nothing about a state, as such. This is the kind of trash these right wing racist guys throw around all the time.
Legitimacy? Israel worries about legitimacy because it is, in fact, very questionable.
Brad Brzezinski:
January 9th, 2013 at 3:19 am
DW: Thanks for telling me I have too much time on my hands, whilst writing so voluminously. I appreciate the merriment.
I did answer your question about, “reference to OTHER unacceptable regimes..” but it was a little subtle and you are too bull-headed to have noticed.
Any bad behaviour must be subject to correction and that correction should be in line with what similar offenders receive. This is the basis of case law.
If Israel is guilty of crimes and others also guilty of them, all should be meted similar punishments. In this case, Israel is pitted against regional jurisdictions that are quite obviously guilty of pretty much everything Israel is accused of. By ignoring these other “crimes,” a precedent is set whereby it is not fair to punish just Israel.
Further, a reasonable investigator would be suspicious of the fact that only one country was consistently being singled out – see my UN example. That would raise the distinct possibility that the one country was being used as a scapegoat and might not even be guilty at all.
Davey Wavey:
January 9th, 2013 at 4:56 am
Brad — The regional referents are not the relevant case. Western Europe and the US are the proper comparisons precisely because Israel CLAIMS such provenance. I think it is characteristic of Israel to curry favor, seeking attention and subsidies worldwide but to, at the same time, object when the attention turns critical…er…rather….”anti-semitic.” Israel has made itself unacceptable in many parlors as a result. The Zionists have hijacked the Holocaust and Judaism for its own ends, namely to remove a people from their own homes and land so that other non-natives can settle in and on it, all properly subsidized by foreigners. If Israel stops currying favor and money to further its otiose plans, it will cease to be a target of criticism (anti-semitism.) As it stands, I would be surprised if any sovereign state would trust any Israeli promise or pledge. Much of the world knows Netanyahu and Barak as small time crooks and liars, struggling for the big time, e.g. the West Bank and Iran. After all, the small economy doesn’t permit big time payoffs. And even the US Congress has been, as Friedman (no anti-Zionist him) said, “bought and paid for” like paying off a judge or a cop but on the international stage.
Israel violates international law repeatedly with immunity. Better, I think, if international law is enforced worldwide and we can all forgo the criticism. Israel can aggressively annex lands through force, in violation of the central tenet of the UN, but it will not, at the same time, command a good reputation. That will not happen as long as people can see and think.
maryam:
January 9th, 2013 at 11:33 am
Interesting that a zionist troll should show up on Alan’s blog during the time when the zionists are trying to stop the appointment of Chuck Hagel as US Secretary of Defense.
Since Mr. Brezinski’s comments are nothing more than the same old tired hasbara, I will not waste my energy or time on them. But I will say that I find it amusing how zionists so doggedly stick to the same old rubbish no matter how the political landscape changes. Having nothing new to say would compel most normal people to simply keep their mouths shut (or their hands off their keyboards, as the case may be).
Brad Brzezinski:
January 9th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
maryam have you considered that I might be paid by Alan to drive up traffic to his blog? It’s just as probable as what you’re hinting at.
Davey Wavey:
January 9th, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Anyone who has read Hart’s arduous and well-argued books knows very well he is not in the employ of any organization. In fact, he risks a lot pursuing anti-Zionism and, I feel certain, doesn’t make a living at it. The probability that he would hire someone to increase his blog is miniscule. The probability that you are an official hasbarist is much higher.
Brad Brzezinski:
January 9th, 2013 at 8:30 pm
DW the bit about being paid by Alan was tongue-in-cheek.
In your last argument you are saying that Israel must be chastised for CLAIMING to be westernized and failing. Because of our previous discussion, this means that it’s OK for a country to behave badly as long as it does not CLAIM to be civilised. How then will we encourage improvement in these other countries?
Davey Wavey:
January 9th, 2013 at 9:17 pm
Nothing I said suggests that it is ok for countries to behave badly. Nobody is entitled to a free ride. But, Israel has made a national celebration of its own adherence to “democratic” and “shared” values and we must evaluate Israel as we would, say, Texas. Actually, there are no shared values. The reference is really to Zionists active (a fifth column, eh) in the US. Israel “shares values” with them, not with America. Even so, the trumpeted pretense requires then some conformity and, should such be absent, then Israel faces criticism.
Here’s a diddy for you: Israel claims that criticism is “anti-semitic” and that it represents all Jews. If you refer to Israeli policies and practices as “Jewish” policies and practices, however, you are also an “anti-Semite.” How can Israel = Jews and yet if Hagel uses the term “Jewish lobby” he is anti-semitic. Should he have said “Israeli lobby”? Would that have been less “anti-semitic”? How so? Or he is disallowed from referring to Israel (Jews) altogether? You see — just like Atzmon points out — “Jewish” is patent nonsense and Israel is bs.
Bob:
January 10th, 2013 at 12:27 am
I agree with Davey Wavey regarding Alan Hart’s books. Indeed Alan has risked his life for what he has written. He has reconstructed the history of Palestine the Zionists have sought to wipe out. History is written by victors but time will tell how the Zionists fare. I hope future generations see Zionism will see it for what it is: As Monopolist Totalitarianism/Feudalism.
Steve Meikle:
January 20th, 2013 at 6:01 am
“The Arab destroys everything he touches” the man said. SO he does not know any history. He has never heard of the great Islamic Caliphate which stretched from the Pyrenees to the Indus and was the greatest civilization on earth at the time, which preserved the wisdom of the Ancients when Europe was a collection of mud spattered barbarians.
He also ignores the history of his own people, who found succour among the Muslims against the pogroms at the time of the Crusades etc. After all the Great Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, also known as Maimonides or Rambam, was based in Muslim Spain. This changed after 1492 because of the cruelty of the Reconquistas but the middle ages lasted about 1000 years
But Feiglin hates. That is what keeps him warm at nights, he does not want historical truth, only excuses for his hate
ontogram:
January 21st, 2013 at 12:55 am
It is good to highlight again the wonders wrought by Arab culture at its height. Incredible.
This guy is just a sorry looking, sorry thinking dummy.