By Alan Hart
Q: Mr. President, I’d like to begin this conversation with a quote from a recent article by Thomas L. Friedman in the New York Times. He wrote: “The only thing standing between Israel and national suicide any more is America and its willingness to tell Israel the truth.” If you were free to speak your mind to Israel, I mean Israel’s Jews, what would be your message?
A: I would tell them that no president, including this one, can save them from the policies and actions of their own leaders.
Q: What is it in particular that you think they need to be “saved” from?
A: (The president smiled). The short answer is Netanyahu, those to the right of him and the Zionist colonial ideology they represent. The long answer has to take account of this fact. If Israel continues on its present course, gobbling up more and more of the land and water resources of the occupied West Bank, there will come a time when the Palestinians of Greater Israel will outnumber its Jews. They and their leaders will then have a choice of three options.
Q: What are they?
A: One is for the Jewish minority of Greater Israel to rule the Palestinian Arab majority by repression. That would create a full-blown version of apartheid, similar to the old South African system but far worse than it.
Q: What you think the consequences of that would be?
A: As happened in South Africa’s case, the world, governments as well as peoples, would eventually say to Greater Israel “Enough is enough”, and it would be subjected to sanctions applied globally.
Q: Are you suggesting that in this scenario you can see a day coming when America, even America, would become part of a global effort to sanction apartheid Greater Israel?
A: Yes. I think there would come a time when a majority of Americans were outraged enough to insist that Congress and their president acted.
Q: Is your assumption that the imposition of global sanctions (or even a credible threat of them) would bring a majority of Israeli Jews to their senses and cause them to insist that their leaders seriously addressed the Palestinian claim and need for justice?
A: It is not an assumption. It’s a hope.
Q: But there could be a downside, Mr. President. Sanctions could be counter-productive. They could have the effect of reinforcing in the minds of brainwashed Israeli Jews the belief that they had no choice but to tell the world to go to hell and do whatever they thought was necessary to maintain their iron grip on Palestine that became Israel.
A: That’s a possibility.
Q: What is another option for an Israel determined to stay on its present course?
A: Simply stated it is to defuse the ticking demographic time-bomb of occupation by creating a pretext for a final round of ethnic cleansing, to drive the Palestinians off the West Bank into Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and beyond.
Q: Israel’s leaders are the masters at creating pretexts to justify aggression of all kinds, but what kind of pretext could possibly be presented as justification for a final ethnic cleansing?
A: That’s not something I wish to speculate about.
Q: Then let me run this thought past you… Half a dozen Israeli agents pose as Palestinian terrorists. In cities up and down and across the state they plant bombs which kill dozens perhaps even scores of Israeli Jews. That would be enough to trigger a final ethnic cleansing and mobilize support for it.
A: It could happen like that.
Q: What do you think the consequences of a final Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine could be?
A: The answer has to begin with recognition of the fact that what we are witnessing in the world today, provoked by Israel’s policies and actions in defiance of international law, is a rising, global tide of anti-Israelism. The danger, as a former Director of Israeli Military Intelligence warned more than 20 years ago, is that what starts out as anti-Israelism could be transformed into classical anti-Semitism, leading to another great turning against Jews everywhere, including here in America.
Q: Mr. President, there are some people who believe that is precisely the outcome Zionism’s in-Israel leaders want because it would cause many North American and European Jews to flee to Israel for protection and, also, would justify in the minds of Zionism’s in-Israel leaders anything and everything they did to obtain and maintain an Israel that was big enough to be a refuge of last resort for all Jews.
A: There is enough evidence in history to make a case for that point of view. But I want to add that a final Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine could create great and grave dangers for the whole world, not only for Jews. It would propel Arab and wider Muslim hurt, humiliation and anger to new high levels, and that could only be good recruitment news for the proponents of violent Islamic fundamentalism.
Q: Could that make a Clash of Civilizations, Judeo-Christian v Islamic, more likely than not?
A: I don’t know.
Q: What is the third option for Greater Israel?
A: To formally annex all of the West Bank and then declare and mean that it wanted the enlarged state to be truly democratic with equal rights, including voting rights, for all its citizens. Sounds good in theory but it’s never going to happen in that way because there would come a time when Zionism would be voted out of existence by the Palestinian Arab majority. Zionism is never going to put itself out of business by its own actions.
Q: We have not spoken about a two-state solution which would see, in exchange for real peace, Israel ending its occupation of West Bank and lifting its siege of the Gaza Strip to create the space for a viable Palestinian state with East Jerusalem its capital or an undivided Jerusalem the capital of two states.
A: There is no point in talking about a viable two-state solution because it has long been dead. Today there are more than half a million illegal Jewish settlers in permanent residence on the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and that number is rising on an almost daily basis. It’s possible that for a real peace some of them would accept compensation and agree to be relocated in an Israel back to its borders as they were on the eve of the 1967 war, but many of them would fight to prevent an enforced evacuation, and that would trigger a Jewish civil war. As Peres said to you in 1980, no Israeli prime minister is going down in history as the one who gave the order to the Jewish army to shoot Jews out of the West Bank, their Judea and Samaria. It isn’t going to happen.
Q: Mr. President, the conclusion invited by our conversation to this point is that it’s too late. The Zionist not Jewish state has become a monster beyond control and the Israel-Palestine conflict can only end in catastrophe for all. Do you see any reason for clinging to the hope that it could be otherwise, that peace with justice for the Palestinians is still possible?
A: Yes, I do see reason for hope if we put it in terms of justice for the Palestinians and peace with security for all. But for the hope I see to become reality, it’s the occupied and oppressed Palestinians, not me, who must take the lead. Let me now explain precisely what I mean. The only possible peaceful solution is one state with equal rights for all. The process to bring this about has to begin, must begin, with the Palestinians dissolving the Palestine Authority and handing full responsibility for the occupation back to Israel, then leading a global campaign for equal rights for all in the one state. I’ve said that Zionism will never accept one state for all because it would mean the end of Zionism, but here’s THE question. What, really, is most important for most Israeli Jews? Is it their wellbeing and security or commitment to an ideology, Zionism, which offers only Jewish domination and no hope of peace with security for them?
Q: I can see where you’re going with this line of thinking. You believe that if the Palestinians could convince a majority of Israeli Jews that their security would be absolutely guaranteed in one state for all, that could be a game changer…?
A: That is more or less what I believe and here’s why. If a majority of Israeli Jews were convinced that they could and would have a secure and prosperous future in one state with equal rights for all, there has to be a possibility that they would tell their hardcore Zionist leaders that their time was up and that what was needed was a new vision. As to what that new vision could be, I’ll quote to you, Mr. Hart, your own words on the subject. You have written and said this: “The Jews, generally speaking are the intellectual elite of the Western civilization. The Palestinians are by far the intellectual elite of the Arab world. What they could do together in peace and partnership is the stuff that dreams are made of. They could change the region of the better and, by so doing, give new hope and inspiration to the whole world.”
Q: If the occupied and oppressed Palestinians took the lead in the way you have suggested and seriously got down to the business of seeking to convince Israel’s Jews that they would have a secure and prosperous future in one state for all, would there come a time when you endorsed the one state call?
A: Yes, and now I’ll be completely frank with you. If the occupied and oppressed Palestinians put every possible effort into trying to convince Israel’s Jews that they could and would have a secure and prosperous future in one state for all, my task in helping to bring it about would be assisted by the support of many if not most American Jews. You probably don’t need me to tell you that a growing number of American Jews, more of them each day, are silently concerned, even alarmed, by what Israel has become. They are aware that the anti-Israelism being provoked by Zionism could be transformed into classical anti-Semitism.
Q: You mean that more and more Americans are beginning to understand that it’s not in their own best interests to go on supporting Israel right or wrong?
A: I am saying more than that. I’m saying that if a majority of American Jews were convinced that Israel’s Jews could and would have a secure and prosperous future in one state for all, they would become involved in the game-changing process.
Q: The implication of what you are saying is that days of the Zionist lobby calling the shots for American policy on all matters to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict could be numbered.
A: Yes. And the sooner the day comes when an American president can work with Congress to put America’s own interests first instead of having them subservient to Israel’s interests, the better it will be for all of us.
Q: Could that happen during your second term?
A: I would like to think so but I can’t be sure.
Q: A last thought for now, Mr. President. Are we being naive when we entertain the thought that Israel’s brainwashed Jews might have their minds opened to reason by changing circumstances?
A: Only time will tell.
At that point I woke up. With the approach of the New Year I was only dreaming that I had an off-the-record conversation with President Obama.
If you liked this post, then...
- Share it with others using this button:
- Comment on it using the form below.
- Subscribe to my blog via email or RSS to get "new post" alerts.
- Follow me on Twitter (@alanauthor).
Well, I hope you (Alan) have sent 'him' the link, because no one needs to hear it, see it or read it more. Then all 'he' needs to do is speak it. In your dreams??
The responses you received from Obama do not serve his purposes.
Why simply not ask for the International Court to be convened
The responses you received from Obama do not serve his purposes.
Why simply not ask for the International Court to be convened and have the zionists stand trial?
The one and only thing that needs to happen here, to defuse any or almost any loss of life; is to have international law enforced. Wolla; justice is served and everybody goes back about their business.
Justice is the key. Has always been the key; will always be the key. But Obama is not about justice, has never wanted justice and doesn't seek justice. Justice will never bring him his goals; which are criminal.
In other words, the "solution" is for the Palestinians to dissolve their alleged government and throw themselves on the mercy of the Israelis, hoping that the US government and the US electorate will save them by convincing the Israeli electorate that the only way to save Israel is the one-state solution.
All I can say is: Good luck with that. You're looking at a probably 20-50 year long project which has many steps, all of which are unlikely to be achieved before the Zionists can step up the violence and drive the Palestinians off the West Bank and Gaza.
Here's my alternative: Get the international community to force the UN - regardless of US veto, by going through the General Assembly - to reverse the decisions of the UNSC in 1947, declare Israel an illegal state (because the UN never recognized it and the UN had no legal right to partition Palestine in the first place), place all of Israel and Palestine under UN control, then convene a Constitutional Convention for a new state of Palestine, then hold elections for the new state with anyone who served in either Israel or the Palestinian governments being unable to stand for office (thus marginalizing the current losers).
Of course, this will never happen either. But if you're relying on the US to reverse the ethnic cleansing (or genocide) of Palestinians, you've got a long wait ahead of you.
The problem is very simple: The Zionists are a unitary, unified group. They can always out-maneuver the rest of the world by simply "justifying" enhanced violence by ratcheting up their own actions, e.g., the current round of settlement expansion.
The only way to deal with that issue is for the international community to come in and take control of the Israeli military machine, and to disenfranchise the entire Israeli government. Regardless of Israel's nuclear arsenal and its threatened "Samson Option", they are in no position to threaten the entire world if the entire world decides "enough is enough". Israel could be driven to its knees by a total air and naval blockade backed up by the military force of NATO (assuming the US would never support such a move) and the US (if it could be persuaded to do so.)
Again, very unlikely to happen. But it would be far more efficient and quicker than waiting on large numbers of US voters to get their heads out of their butts and overthrowing the US Congress which is totally in the hands of AIPAC and the Zionist Lobby.
Alan, you have nailed the potential scenarios, as well as the obvious solution to the problem. The question in my mind has long been “what is the path to One Democratic State, the path of least resistance?” There have been half a dozen One State conferences in the last ten years, but this question has never really been on the agenda.
You frame it as the responsibility of the Palestinians to convince the Israelis that they would be safe in such a future. As I see it, that is half the story. The other part is unrelenting pressure from the rest of the world, a la the political and economic sanctions applied against So. Africa - particularly from the people of the West, as Israel sees itself as a Western democracy.
I believe such an effort is doable within the foreseeable future, but not unless there is a united front that stretches from the Palestinian communities within Israel and the OT to the streets of America and the UK. What is required is leadership and organization. Where would this come from?
Roger Tucker
One Democratic State
http://onestate.info
Q: Are you suggesting that in this scenario you can see a day coming when America, even America, would become part of a global effort to sanction apartheid Greater Israel?
A: Yes. I think there would come a time when a majority of Americans were outraged enough to insist that Congress and their president acted.
Hello Alan, It's fun to ruminate speculatively, isn't it?
Regardless, any "Spirit of '76" remaining in the U.S. public - that being the simple gumption required to fire outrage and activism - has been effectively subsumed by TV. A decade ago NY Times columnist Frank Rich wrote to the effect, quite correctly, I think, that if it isn't on TV in America it simply doesn't exist in the greater American picture of reality.
TV defines what the governing reality IS in America. Here, when it comes to Zionist Israel's Lebensraum and Security, well, anything is reasonable. The detailed CNN-ORC International Poll conducted November 16-18, 2012, is very clear in that regard. I suggest, Alan, that you audit the complete results.
Very broadly, 57% of all respondents stated Israel's latest military operation in Gaza was justified; it was 59% among registered voters. That doesn't sound too bad until one considers the 19% of respondents having no opinion at all.
Three quarters of ostensibly responsible Americans either support Zionist excesses or just don't care. After all, the NFL Playoffs are set to commence soon.
If the American public is going to insist on anything at all, I'm rather afraid it will be an attack on Iran. Truth and actual reality mean little to the great majority of us. Our national perspectives are flawed because of gigantic lies of omission - and heavy emphasis on stories keeping us fearful of things at home and abroad.
It's what keeps the armament factories churning.
S Africa not a good analogy. Look what happened to that country after apartheid ended.
It's a wishful thinking on your part Mr. Hart. Anyone who has studied Barack Obama's political career from an objective source - will tell you Obama has no stomach to make such antisemitic statement. He is product of Chicago's Jewish crime mafia - and the Jewish Lobby which put him in the Senate and the White House.
Let's imagine for a minute that he did say what you wrote considering Obama will be serving his second and final term in the White House and doesn't need Zionist/Jewish support anymore - but then there are people like Rabbi Andrew B. Alder, who in January 2012 had suggested that Israeli Mossad should assassinate Obama because he was too coward to attack Iran.
http://rehmat1.com/2012/01/21/jewish-editor-mossad-should-assassinate-obama/
Dream on, Alan.
Richard..Like David King Said .." Your Ideas ARE good. So many Real Patriots in This Country Backs Such a Plan. But With the Number of Neo-cons I That have Infiltrated Our ? Guvmt. ho 'seem to be left free reign...I don`t see This Occuring...Not until, As was Stated, These <> who are Squatting in our / House and Senate... Has to be Ousted Before Anything Meaningful Can be Accomplished. This ""Lawful Path ' Probably Is Too Long and Uncertainn..to Consider Much Longer. While WE Fiddle, Rome Burns ! Things ARE going to Come to a head In this Country Soon. For People Are wising up to this Fact..With Each Day that Dawns. I see no Recourse From Bloodshed. Some folks May be 'turning in their OLD Weapons..But I Do not Believe ANYone is Turning in their Weapons that is in good working order .. ( Like this Guvmt. had Hoped They would DO. )
lets get sumthing straight here. NO AMERICAN PRESIDENT can and ever will have the balls to stand up to the Zionist lobby and demand to stop this nonesense. they are all puppets in their hands and they dance to their tunes and will. unless and until the American general public wakes up from its slumber and ignorance, and realizes the garbage their govt is feeding them, wen they realize their govt is made up of traitors who put the interests of another country above the American interests, ONLY wen the public pressure is so immense that the president and congress actually does wat its suppose to do, only then sumthing of a miracle will happen. otherwise its a pipe dream a utopia. calling the president the most powerful man in the world is a bloody joke. if he was all that powerful he wudnt bend over to the likes of netenyahu and the stooges in zionist lobby. i still wonder y do ppl vote, its the biggest lie ever. ur votes dont matter. the candidates r chosen on the basis of how much they grovel in front of the zionist lobby and surrender themselves to its policies and whims. obama aint different.
Dear Alan Hart.
Actually you are making many brilliant points in this article and I woould not expect anything less from you. You are however, implicitly giving Barak Obama the credit of doubt that he actually cares for the Palestinian people. Meanwhile, his policy and the policy in Israel, Qatar and Egypt which he is supporting, is racing to what could best be described as the "Endlösung". A final Solution. The establishment of a free trade zone in the Sinai, an Egyptian - Muslim Brotherhood - controlled, Hamas led Palestinian state in Gaza; the permanent annexation of the greatest part of the West Bank and Palestinian micro enclaves which are controlled by a Jordanian government - a soon to be Muslim Brotherhood controlled Jordanian government. Let alone the planned annexation of the Syrian Golan. I would not give Obama the credit of doubt. Thank you for a great article though. As always, very much appreciated. I wish you a happy, healthy and hopefully more peaceful 2013.
Alan does give some interesting future possibilities certainly based on the past behaviour of Israel and that of the Jews in both "Greater Israel" and of those that support the Colonial Enterprise in the USA and elsewhere. An awakening amongst them that they are being used: That they are making their own position in the world untenable serving the interests of a few masters possibly in banking and finance who promote and provoke war for profit.
Perhaps the Pork Barrel pocicy manipulators have sealed Israel's fate by in effect bankrupting the United States? We shall see.
The One State Solution is the one that would bring lasting peace security and safety to the region but is an undesireable one to the profiteers of the Military Industrial Complex.
Just for a minute, Alan, I let myself be taken in by this scenario, and the feeling I have now is just like the depression you get when you wake up from a lovely deam and realise that it is just that!
In fact, depression is the only reaction I experience now when I consider this situation. For a while I'd come to a conclusion that a one state solution was the only hope for the Palestinians, but several articles in various periodicals and newspapers have made it clear that this will never be an option.
And the two state solution too has been made less and less likely by the subtle encroachment of the Zionist colonists. You only have to look at a map of the West Bank to see how Israel has carved up so much Palestinian territory. It resembles a scan of a body racked with advanced cancer.
So my view is one of despair. Even if somehow Israel can be prevailed upon to accept the two state solution, their brutal occupation of the Palestinians and what Norman Finkelstein refers to as 'state terrorism' to which it has subjected the Gazans espeoially in the last two years, all these factors must be rementing a terrible hatred which will take ages to fade even if peace can be achieved.
Somebody please show me I'm wrong. I dearly want to be!
@Graham Griffiths:
You are wrong, sir. The ONLY solution is one state, whether voluntarily agreed upon by the Zionists, or else forced on them by demographics. Israel cannot continue murdering Palestinians forever. One day the world will wake up and put an end to this. Though I imagine the US empire will have to collapse first, because Israel is an integral part of that empire.
International court? Do you really believe that Israel and its bitch the U.S. really give a shit about what the international court says. The U.S. was convicted by the world court of war crimes during Viet Nam but that didnt stop us from continuing that war. I do not see Palestine ever getting its own state since Israel is against it and they rule the world. And Mr. Tariq, I agree with you 100% that no American President will ever have the balls to stand up to that little pissant of a country,Israel. As far as the peoples vote,I do not believe Presidents are elected but selected by those in financial power. Who ever bows the deepest and grovels before Israel gets elected. Has any one ever noticed how every politgian of any note is always photographed praying at the wailing wall. Bush,Obama.Kerry, McCain etc. They got this pious look on their face but they are probably thinking,what the fuck am I doing with my face pressed against some booger stained wall,and I wonder how much money will I get for this. You say one state with equal rights for all, The black man was given that in 1865 and he was still being strung up in the 1960,s for things like whistling at a white woman. It aint gonna happen, the Palestinians will always be second class citizens.and the U.S. will bow its head and say nothing. Jewish interests control the worlds economy And to be perfctly crude.Life is like a shit sandwich, The more bread you have the less shit you have to eat. thus ends the word of todays Holy Gospel.
@Graham Griffiths
Graham; don't fear. The articles you have read where written by a zionist hand, with the express desire to discourage you. The situation is indeed much different.
zion is fighting battles at the moment with all of it's cunning and all of it's strength. It is fighting battles with the knowledge that they have lost the war. I personally believe that we will see the end of ersats israel in a decade.
Gene posting above, is correct.
The idea of one state with equal rights for all is a "pipe dream".
The Israelis would never go for it. The only way, as I see it, to
solve the conflict is for the Palestinians with the sanction of the U.N, to declare the West Bank (as per the 1967 borders)the
Country of Palestine. They would have to protection of the U.N. Peace Keeping Forces. ALL the Jewish people in the settlements would have 1 year to either relocate back into Israel or to stay
and become citizens of Palestine with full rights. All the WALLS
would be demolished and ,of course, the Israeli Army move back t
Israel. Just think how this would be hailed around the world!! Ther would PEACE and the apartheid would end andd the Palestinians would have their own country to work on.
THINK ABOUT IT !!!
Jere' Fetter said... “The idea of one state with equal rights for all is a "pipe dream". The Israelis would never go for it.” That argument has become a familiar meme, but it holds as much water as ‘homosexuals will never be allowed to marry because the much more powerful and numerous heteros will never allow it,’ or ‘the underdog can’t win because the favorite won’t let them.’
There will be one state, no matter what anyone thinks. It may be, temporarily, a Jewish State stretching from the river to the sea – the endgame that the Israelis have been working on from the beginning, but such a state would collapse quickly because of the blowback from the rest of the world, particularly the muslim world – even the Saudis and the Emirates wouldn’t dare to interfere. A Palestinian state is inevitable, perhaps in combination with Jordan – history is heavily weighted in its favor. What sort of Palestinian state is anybody’s guess. My preference would be for an Algerian style solution – otherwise it would likely end up looking like contemporary South Africa.
What few people acknowledge is that Israel was doomed from the beginning – designed like an airplane whose creators simply ignored aerodynamics. It is probably the stupidest thing ever attempted by us supposedly smart Jews. In the meantime, though, they are still capable of inflicting even far greater harm than up till now, even to the point of threatening the destruction of much of the world if they don’t get their way – they are, after all, arguably criminally insane.
It is a fact that most of the planet's news provision is controlled by right wing moguls. Their aim is to spread the virus of capitalism and increase the planet's gap between wealthy and those in need. Left Insider provides left wing news from reputable news sites like Left Futures, Red Pepper, Novara, The Canary, Buzz Feed, Left Foot Forward etc. We all own the right to maximise our own qualities and we all have the obligation to help others achieve theirs.